Useful site for gas prices!

[Pstehley]

http://www.pittsburghgasprices.com/

if you scroll down the left side there is a place that will allow you to change the state/providence or metro area and it will take you to the site for that area... it's really useful as people will post what gas prices are where and it will even map out the location if you'd like...

it's gonna be a long haul till gas prices drop again, so I suggest conserving as much as you can... ie carpool, walk, ride a bike, stay home and get bombed... whatever option best fits... Some day, big money will learn the errors of it's ways.. maybe.. and hopefully before another depression starts...

[Phrazz]

Pat,

People are dying by the thousands because of the hurricane disaster and you tell us how we can find out about the cheapest gas?

Man, you missed the bus!

Phrazz

P.S.: Gas prices are not going to drop. Big oil is in control. Bikes are good.

[Pstehley]

Pat,

People are dying by the thousands because of the hurricane disaster and you tell us how we can find out about the cheapest gas?

Man, you missed the bus!

Phrazz

P.S.: Gas prices are not going to drop. Big oil is in control. Bikes are good.

Not really Phrazz... I did everything that I could possibly do... Pam and I ourselves are barely rubbing 2 penny's together right now because we are still trying to balance out from the move.... But in this move, we donated a lot of old clothing and things to good will/salvation army/ ect... I feel really bad for these people down in the south and am glad that my family members down in florida and georgia are alright and doing ok. I've signed petitions and ranted and raved, been glued to the tv/newspapers/various other news sources/message boards... Should I just drop everything and paint myself Blue in protest until somebody gets off their duff and does something? I understand your disdane for my post, but what you also need to consider is that some of us are also worried about our quality of life. I understand that in perspective, I'm a whole hell of a lot better off than the people down south that lived through the storm, and like I said, I did everything that I could do to help them. At the same time though, I have to realize that where I live, I have to drive to work, no one I work with lives anywhere near me, so I have to drive. With limited amount of driving and general use of public transportation (buses/T/carpooling with friends on the weekend) I can make a tank of gas last me for almost 2 weeks. When the two weeks are up, I have to sadly fill my gas tank, which as prices go up, so does my the amount of money that I spend. And frankly, I'm not a rich man. I have a pretty good job, but Pam is a day care teacher... and frankly, they never get paid what they are worth! And given the fact that the bills keep coming and Pam hasn't even gotten her first pay check yet, yes, I'm being selfish in the fact that I'm worried more about my own concern than somebody elses. Anyway... you also need to factor in, if people can spend less money at the pump, they can donate more money/goods toward the cause that will probably just end up rotting in a big warehouse like they did for 9-11. Sorry to be so jaded, but frankly, how much I spend in gas matters to me, and I thought that it might matter to others... but lest I forget, your mode of transportation must be like Ed Bagley Jr's from the "Max Power" episode of the simpsons, a car powered by your own positive self thoughts... huh? It's all good though, I understand how people can get heated about issues that are going on. And yes, I do agree that the federal gov't dropped the ball on this one. I also understand how on a message board, meaning and messages can go misunderstood or misinterpreted, so there is no love loss. Sorry to rant, but it really kinda struck a nerve with me...

[diesel]

cool, thanks pat

i doubt prices will go down drastically, they might drop to 2.85 or so, but they will rise again as they have in the past year. soon it will be $4 and higher.

at point will everyone start to REALLY get pissed about prices? (general question to all)

[Pstehley]

Cool thing about Pennsyltuckey.. as you put it... is that Rendell is thinking about a couple of options... maybe rationing or dropping the $0.35 State tax on Gas... We'll have to see though.. maybe now the alternative ways of producing crude (see garbage recycling) or other fuel sources will take the mainstage... I doubt it though.. you'll never see a lower of gas prices as long as you got "big oil bob" in office... ya know...

[tim]

ever notice that the only people complaining about gas prices are the people who drive cars? ask any gas huffer what they think and they'll probably tell you that $3 a gallon is still a great deal.

seriously though, someone at work just pointed this out to me- he asked how much my cup of starbucks was. i let him know it was $1.74 for a 16oz cup. we did the math and coffee ended costing a little over $12 a gallon. now i know this is apples and oranges, but it really made me think for a moment about consumption of things you don't need.

i looked at some of the unneeded things i buy everyday,

can of red bull- $2
pack of smokes- $4
cup of coffee- $1.74

thats $7.74 spent on an almost daily basis. x's by 365 and that $2,825 a year

[etahn]

at point will everyone start to REALLY get pissed about prices? (general question to all)

I don't plan to ever get pissed about gas prices. Fact is, I don't know what I can do to bring them down, and if I did, I would. Or is that what you meant?

The last time I had a job I commuted to was 1999. Since then I have been successful in coordinating living situations with job situations, either by living literally where I work, or by living close enough that I can bike to work. That's right, I'm better than you. (<--kidding!)

Fact is I still own a car and I wuss out a lot, especially if it's raining. And I don't know if I'll ever not own one. Maybe if everyone I ever wanted to see lived within 50 or 100 miles of me. Maybe if I could commit to cutting myself off from everyone outside of that radius. I certainly never would have made it to my friend's wedding in AL, or most of the Slip shows I've seen, without a car. But conserving can mean slowing the flow as well as stopping it.

I strongly encourage anyone who has the slightest inclination to take up bicycling to do so. Not only will you save mad cash on gas and insurance, you'll save yourself the frustration of driving in traffic, you'll save the planet that much more car exhaust, and maybe (just maybe), you'll help alleviate some of the country's oil dependence. You'll also give yourself some daily exercise, which will simultaneously help you become fitter physically and if you ride far enough, you'll get at least a little bit of that endorphine rush that makes good people good. (Please somebody pick up the "endorphine rush that makes good people good" thread.) Bikes are also good for beer. It's still possible to get a BUI, but bikes are a lot less deadly than cars.

As long as I'm raving about bicycles, I'll offer a few tips on how to get started. First off, you'll need a bike. My recommendation is to do some research and think about where you'll be riding and how much/how far. Many people assume they want a mountain bike for durability and offroad capability, and in some cases they're right. I've found that what suit me best here in Cleveland is a road bike, the kind with the funny handlebars. Of course, I like to go fast, fast enough that getting down low to cut wind resistance makes a difference to me. Many people will be more comfortable with a more upright position, though I think ulitmately these bikes are harder to handle. They do give you a better view of the road. The most important considerations are riding position, sizing, and tires. Riding position we've touched on. Sizing is how the bike fits to you. Get help from someone who knows on this one, and remember that you have the greatest power in your stroke towards the end, when your leg is close to fully extended. I see lots of people riding with their knees in their chests and just shake my head. Tires probably make the single biggest difference in ride quality and rolling resistance. Big fat tires give a cushy ride, but take more pushing to get around, like a Cadillac. Skinny tires go faster, but ride rougher and require constant attention to keep their higher pressure up. Any tire will go flat of you hit something hard enough and the tire pressure is low enough. You have a greater fudge factor with fat tires. Knobby tires are only appropriate on dirt/mud trails, and the knobs create so much rolling resistance on the road, and actually give you less traction. Completely slick tires give you the best traction on the road, bar none. Even in rain. Snow is a little different, but if you're hard core enough to ride in snow, you're hard core enough to figure that out. Yes, studded snow tires are available.
Once you've got a bike, be certain to get proper lights (even if you're not planning to ride after dark, it will happen). REFLECTORS ARE NOT ENOUGH!!!! Reflectors only reflect when a light is shined directly on them, and nine times out of ten, if a car's headlights are already on you, it's too late for the driver to react. Spend twenty bucks and get some blinkies. Most states (Ohio included) require lights on bicycles by law. Often bicycles are considered vehicles (as in Ohio), and every vehicle on the road needs to have lights.
Helmets are also required in most states (though not Ohio). Don't worry about whether the law requires it, BUY A HELMET!! Even a junky one from Target will help considerably, though I've found that stepping up to a decent (I paid $30) one makes a big difference. A good friend of mine wrecked his bike about a month ago, breaking his collarbone in four places. The only record we found of his accident was a blue smear on the asphalt that was left by his helmet. Had he not been wearing it, I'm sure he'd be a vegetable at best right now. He was not hit by a car, just ran into a huge pothole and went over the bars.
And last, if you're going to ride in the city, find a local bicycling organization where you can learn the laws concerning cyclists, and some techniques for riding in the road and riding safely. Most accidents occur with cyclists riding on the sidewalk. Your safest bet, generally, is to ride in the street as if you were a car, albeit a slow one. People will honk at you, they will call you names, they will cut you off. But by being obvious and deliberate, you at least give them a choice about whether they hit you. And it's ok to let them get pissed at you, you have to take care of yourself. DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR SAFETY FOR SOMEONE ELSE"S CONVENIENCE!!

Here's a link to some local bike co-ops and such around the world. Many offer shop space, shop classes, and even riding classes. If you don't find one in your area on this list: don't fret, google.

http://www.ibike.org/encouragement/free ... m#PROGRAMS

A lot of bike shops do the same, but they're too often all about the bottom line. They need to sell new bikes to pay their rent. Try talking to some friendly folks at your local co-op first. They'll probably be willing to take the time to get you properly fit and onto something that will do what you want to do. And last but not lesast, beware of ultra-cheap bikes. A shitty bike is something you're going to fight with daily, and will not encourage a happy cycling experience. Some people do come up through those ranks, and one might argue that cyclists exist already, regardless of what they're riding. But I know I've ridden crummy bikes and nice ones, and there really is a difference.

I love Fridays rants.

[diesel]

etahn, wtf? you and peewee herman need to go on long bike rides together.

anyway, i drive a solid 100 miles a day to work and back. yes, i know, its crazy. at $3/g thats about 3 G's a year. my question was just a general question. i wonder to myself, what would happen next week if gas was 5/g. gas prices will go up and up. and im wondering where the fuck is the cap? where are the alternatives? most importantly where are the riots?

tim - after hearing one of the most moronic, ignorant, people here at work use the same analogy you did, i realise its a dumb one. its like saying i spend money $# on clothes or beer. gas is a not a luxary for all people. some of us really do need it to get around.

[Pstehley]

etahn, wtf? you and peewee herman need to go on long bike rides together.

Fuck that! I've upgraded to the Pope-mobile...

100 miles a day!!! Diesel.. when is enough enough!! god...

anyway.. I think they'll let gas get up to about maybe $6-7 dollars before they realize that it puts a huge strangle hold on the US.. afterall.. you wanna help people.. well.. filling those big trucks for shipments and what not don't run on will power.. ya know... alright.. maybe 6-7 is an over the top guess... but I'm willing to say probably around $5.. maybe...

[Pstehley]

this is classic....

[Katie]

Everyone is so concerned with gas prices lately, but it seems like big business is still trying to capitalize on that and distract people from thinking too deeply about changing their ways of gasoline-dependence. Just last night I heard an add for an American car maker boasting their number of models that get 'over 30 highway mpg!' but we've almost never see commercials for hybrids because low emissions has never exactly been a huge selling point to most people, and now they're not advertising the 40-60 mpg gas-milage because demand is already so high that waiting lists can be as long as 6 months for new ones.

I'm hoping when people start getting angry about prices, they'll start thinking more about the issue of our consumption. (Which contributes to environmental problems that are certainly not hindering more natural disasters from occuring.) Bycicles and electric cars are good alternatives for commuting within a city (speaking from experience here, as my boss drives an electric car almost year-round in the city of Burlington, and it's worked out well for them.) Hybrids are good for people that have to drive longer distances. Diesel, if that's mostly highway/state roads you'd probably cut your consumption down to an average of 2 gallons a day. I've had one of the earlier hybrid models for a couple months now, and while it does cut the spending on gas pretty much in half, it cost more in the first place so I won't really be saving much in the long run (unless gas reaches $5 a gallon in the next year or two). To me it's more a question of how I spend my money, since I have to drive and needed a new car, I feel better about investing in a low-emissions car that'll help me contribute less to big oil companies.

Another thing that i've discovered is neat about hybrids is most have a consumption screen like this:


It really makes you think about how the way you drive effects your overall milage. If everyone was thinking about how much gas they were using all the time, it would make quite a difference.

[diesel]

katie, my car now gets 35/mpg and is low emission (thank you short, squinty eye people). thats the good part, the bad part is there no freakin way i can afford to buy a new car right now. that just wouldnt make sense. my spend all this money on a new car, when my car now, performs almost as well as hybrids in mpg, but has more muscle. furthermore, IMO, i think hybrids are a joke. the whole point is to stop using gas! when the oil peak really hits, and gas is 10/gallon, you still have to pay to fill your tank, given it will last longer.

my point was, we need action now. either i want to see an alternative to gas on the market (hydrogen, electric, dahlsim style teleportation, whatever) or i want beavis and butthead (bush and cheney) to do something about it. im not holding my breathe for either case. i know the oil companys suck the dick of car companys who suck the dick of politicians who suck the dick of oil companys.

too much gay sex. not that i have problem with gay sex especially when its drunk college girls.

[Katie]

katie, my car now gets 35/mpg and is low emission (thank you short, squinty eye people). thats the good part, the bad part is there no freakin way i can afford to buy a new car right now. that just wouldnt make sense. my spend all this money on a new car, when my car now, performs almost as well as hybrids in mpg, but has more muscle.

Heh... yeah, I'm not suggesting you get one. Like I said, it's not going to save you any money. I had to get a newer car this year to last me a while, so i found the time right to make an investment in one. I'm more suggesting that your travelling is an example of a case in which a hybrid would be a good idea, cause for some types of travelling, it isn't. Aside from the ridiculous truck or suv type-hybrids most are now getting over 50mpg, which on long trips adds up. And yeah they have less muscle, but they generally keep up (I tend to forget how fast I'm going downhill when the hybrid kicks in) and uh, for some people that can be a good thing to introduce into their driving habbits (me included, I'd be happy to never get another ticket again).

furthermore, IMO, i think hybrids are a joke. the whole point is to stop using gas! when the oil peak really hits, and gas is 10/gallon, you still have to pay to fill your tank, given it will last longer.

OK, and you'll often find hybrid drivers laughing at the SUVs at the pumps.

No seriously, good point, they still use gas. The truth is driving them like any other car won't make a whole lot of difference. But the way they're designed leads one to drive in ways that conserve more. Like it consumes less gas once the engine has warmed up, and knowing this, one gets accustomed to combining errands instead of taking more shorter trips. And there's lots of other examples of little things that you notice more with a consumption meter right in front of you that's helpful to change your habits when you do -have to- drive, which while it's not a permanent solution, it is a step to improving the problem.

I'd like to see more developments with electric vehicles in the future, but right now purely electric-powered cars can't go over 25, 30 mph, and in the winter they can't go too far because batteries loose charge faster in the cold. What I appreciate about the focus on hybrid technology right now is that it's a step toward merging the electric car with a solution that'll work for longer car trips, and hopefully it'll lead to something better.

[Phrazz]

It's not Soylent Green (just yet). However, I meant no offense, I was just saying WTF people are dying and we're worried about gas? I know it's going to get a lot more expensive and we all spend tons and all, I was just thinking of the timing and how people are connecting oil with war with hurricanes with bombs and god, flag and country. I connect everything, and hopefully when people catch up, they'll get it (after I'm dead).

Ok, I don't connect everything, but what I'm trying to make a point of is that when we focus too closely on our own pridicament (plight, sorrow, whatever), even as nice as we are to other people, we lose sight of a larger kind of happiness.

Now Ethan (who's sharper than most) explains a great approach: how key it would be if everyone (or even a majority) of people cycled (I'd put walking in that category, too). Though we can't 'cuz we live in the 'burbs, there may come a day (not now, maybe 5 years hence) when we'll decide to move and/or get another job, in which case we might try to live closer to work (or work at home) and forget about gas altogether as we then focus on getting healthy, saving money and time by not having to travel, using simple means to travel (and live).

Part of the gas is the new efficiency taxes (more on this later when I go into some eco-chemistry aspects of liquid fuels), but right now it's gouging because of the freak-out going on in a country that's largely feeling guilty (my perspective) about doing too little too late to help poor people in New Orleans. It's really a huge problem we all need to focus on. Paying a buck or two or more a day or 20 a week is significant, but think of this in comparison to the situation others are in and we see we're not so bad off.

I'm not saying this is easy, I'm just saying you have to put bad things into perspective, or Very Bad Things [TM] will put you into perspective.

Look at it this way: sink or swim. But when you're swimming in shit, does it help that someone on a golf course is worried about his stroke, when yours could be the last you take in your very short and suffering life?

I'm tying everything together again and I do that...but folks should know me better by now.

Anyhow, I didn't mean any harm, just a realization at how serious other people's lives our, and how our little complaints in our worlds don't add up to a pile of beans when you start comparing. Part of the American Problem is that we're all so goddamned selfish (Pat, I don't mean you, but I do mean the general American Public)...it is good that you and everyone has donated the cause (and will), but it's also important (for us as a country) for everyone to realize we are in heavy duty deep shit and if we don't make a serious catastrophic turnaround, the next "back at 'cha" will be tremendous, huge, scary, destructive on an exponential scale, and make us all start riding bicycles sooner than later because this Hurricane was still a "teaser", and the captain of our current nation-ship has his head far underwater, missing all that's going on around him, only aware of situations after a week or so and dozens have people have told him how bad things really are.

So, gas prices...whatever. That's the least of our problems is what I'm trying to say. Maybe it's one of your biggest ones, but I think if you look around (compare with other countries, for instance), you won't mind so much and I think in general this is a good thing because it forces the efficiency we should have had decades ago (and convince people to work from home or whatever works easier all around) and this saves trillions of barrels of fuels over decades...not to mention the reversal of greenhouse and all that fun stuff. The car is not the answer. Ethanol is a good start, but until we convert to hydrogen (solar/hydro/geo/fusion), we are all screwed and a gallon of gas won't mean shit when cities go underwater (or worse). That's what I'm trying to say. You either have perspective, or perspective has you (by the teeth or the lovy comfy armchair or racing against traffic on a knobby-tired mountain monster ;-}).

-Rock it slow,

Phrazz

[rhythmicstorm]

thanks for your perspective, phrazz. i so agree......

right now i'm trying to swear off ANY and ALL complaining about my own life.

it's just irrelevant compared to the devastation in new orleans.